tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4675590510792979183.post2183103206539246134..comments2024-03-28T04:11:32.480-04:00Comments on Uncommon Sense: False Negatives: Evaluations of Functionally "Nonverbal" ChildrenDanahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11193445038085911249noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4675590510792979183.post-80688982969368633482016-09-07T00:12:08.421-04:002016-09-07T00:12:08.421-04:00The false negative thing is so familiar to me. I ...The false negative thing is so familiar to me. I went through a few years in "gifted" classes, but in preschool and kindergarten I had failed several "intelligence" tests. Why? I have severe food allergies and chemical sensitivities. There were all manner of things with which I was not familiar, many common types of foods included. Why would I know what was missing from an ice cream sundae (the cherry, apparently) when I'd never had one or been around one?! At one point, while having a reaction and sensory overload, I had a doctor suggest I was nonverbal-autistic because I didn't answer his questions. This is an important article for teachers, not just testers. A child may know something but not be able to express it the same way another child might...Laura R.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4675590510792979183.post-31143271716995424282016-08-21T13:44:49.496-04:002016-08-21T13:44:49.496-04:00I think this article is a good start. Testers have...I think this article is a good start. Testers have to know the child's easiest mode of responding (which is likely not using their hands) and likely use informal pictures and steadily gear up to a test plate. Jumping right in with an array of four is often way over a child's ability as a new participant in tasks to "find out what they know." It is a fair questions to seek "what they know" and this article points out some of the challenges in the "response mode" and possible competing factors pictures represent (expressive pictures or receptive pictures.) Perhaps the child deserves to be given the direction in a "meta" way so that they realize that it is a test? Lots of interesting points. When I "test," I take it extremely slow, starting with an array of 1, then an array of 2 with one blank, figuring out the most easiest response mode. I even separate out language and look at matching, and go through a simple "find the star" to see the best array and type of pictures. Receptive abilities can easily be over or under-estimated and it is fair to wonder what a child knows. Thank you for this thoughtful article. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12015749365975370736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4675590510792979183.post-9641622149607897002016-07-21T06:46:48.174-04:002016-07-21T06:46:48.174-04:00Anonymous---tough request. Some facts are easy to ...Anonymous---tough request. Some facts are easy to find. Check out the normative/standardization data in the administrators' manual for the tests administered---many tests are used "off-label" for populations for which they haven't been standardized. <br /><br />Another way to see the limits of the tests would be to give the primary caretaker a notepad in the corner while you administer it, with the instruction to write down every time they see an answer that is "wrong" but makes sense in another way (like the examples above).<br /><br />Another way to see the limits of the tests would be to believe in the kids. If you've seen Maya's video or followed our story, you know that she was assessed in the bottom .4th percentile for cognition, and obtained a similar score for receptive language. Yet at age 8 she is reading on grade level. She is not an anomaly, or a miracle, she is a child whose parents could recognize the invalidity of the assessment tools and their use and chose to proceed by giving her a large communication system and presuming competence. I believe (and that belief has been confirmed by the sharing of numerous stories from other families) that she is an example of how standardized tests fail children with complex communication needs.Danahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11193445038085911249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4675590510792979183.post-81422593381470646162016-07-21T02:26:05.258-04:002016-07-21T02:26:05.258-04:00i understand the emotion behind this article but w...i understand the emotion behind this article but would like to see more facts that support the strong assumptions made about the value of standardized assessment tools and the assessors that give them. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4675590510792979183.post-86940760154134382212016-06-17T12:37:18.811-04:002016-06-17T12:37:18.811-04:00It is just impossible to assess a person who anno...It is just impossible to assess a person who annot read your question or understand you. Just because they are unable to respond to conventional tests they are labelled as below average, etc etc. Very sad<br /> Merylleehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08450102875702617243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4675590510792979183.post-51295481290710970762016-06-17T12:33:22.451-04:002016-06-17T12:33:22.451-04:00I realised at a young age that my child had a comm...I realised at a young age that my child had a communication problem. Her first word was a loud firm NO!! Later I realised that she spoke in opposites. when the bath was too cold she asked for more cold water - isnstead of hot; she often said no when in fact she meant yes! There were many arguements and she was frequently in trouble as I seemed the only one who understood this. Eventually she got to conventional school after being delayed an extra y ear. She failed Sub A due to an inexperienced teacher who taught the class nothing for 6 months and was only replaced after the local Educational PSychologist in private practise assesed her - the 14th child in her class to consult him and realised there was a serious problem with the teacher at that school - but the damage was done and she repeated sub A. She was having occupational therapy - and speech therapy - her concept of time was absolutely upsidedown. A lot of time and effort went into helping her to stay in main stream, but in grade three at last she was accepted into a remedial school. She thrived in the small classes, and in grade 7 we applied to have her join mainstream school again. The Conners reports were all positive except the Maths teacher, who claimed she would never manage. We sent her anyway with the understanding that if she did not manage we could take her back to the remedial school. at the end of grade 10 we had her assessed for career guidance by a professor of psychology. The feedback we got was astounding - she had been underperforming......at MATHS!!! We changed her maths calss to higner grade and she thrived. Today she is in her twenties, and has a diploma in IT software programming. SHe will always have verbal skills problems of comprehansion and expression but has learned to cope. <br /> Merylleehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08450102875702617243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4675590510792979183.post-37652867048852591412016-01-12T18:14:24.906-05:002016-01-12T18:14:24.906-05:00I totally agree. Edward was tested at 70 - 85 as ...I totally agree. Edward was tested at 70 - 85 as a partially verbal asd 3 year old. I was shell shocked. This is the same boy you at the age of 2 1/2 could read words we had no idea he knew. He is now 4 1/2 and loves learning the periodic table, the Russian alphabet, the English Alphabet, numbers, the solar system, the rainbow, the skeleton, the world map and states and capitals of the USA (we live in New Zealand), writing (everywhere). He is between 70 and 85 IQ and I am the queens sister.Suzanne Warburtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09133538491081185173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4675590510792979183.post-86032467714466511012016-01-12T18:14:12.403-05:002016-01-12T18:14:12.403-05:00I totally agree. Edward was tested at 70 - 85 as ...I totally agree. Edward was tested at 70 - 85 as a partially verbal asd 3 year old. I was shell shocked. This is the same boy you at the age of 2 1/2 could read words we had no idea he knew. He is now 4 1/2 and loves learning the periodic table, the Russian alphabet, the English Alphabet, numbers, the solar system, the rainbow, the skeleton, the world map and states and capitals of the USA (we live in New Zealand), writing (everywhere). He is between 70 and 85 IQ and I am the queens sister.Suzanne Warburtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09133538491081185173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4675590510792979183.post-67031257010240253102015-11-02T08:33:47.247-05:002015-11-02T08:33:47.247-05:00About pictures -
When I was a school nurse, one o...About pictures - <br />When I was a school nurse, one of the early elementary grade teachers came into the break room laughing. She had just finished a 'name the starting letter' exercise with her class.<br />She showed us a picture of a wig with bright red hair (like clown hair color). <br />She had shown the class the picture and asked who knew what letter it started with. Only one little boy volunteered and he answered, "w".<br />She asked him to tell the class what the picture was so everyone could hear the starting letter. He proudly said, "My mom made it for dinner last night. It's Wasagna".<br /><br />I have to say that that the picture resembled lasagna about as much as a wig (and, as it turned out, none of the class knew what a wig was).<br /><br />And naming things - <br />One little boy was shown some pictures and asked to point to the picture that showed a dad. His response was to ask "what's a dad?"<br />His family member was able to clarify that he called his dad "papa". When asked to point to the picture of a papa, he pointed to the correct picture. He had the same problem with "point to the picture of a purse" (the word his family used was "pocketbook". <br />Using the words he knew, he could point to the correct picture BUT, the items could not be scored because the standard instructions say to ask the child "point to the picture that shows a dad...point to the picture that shows a purse"<br />Many kids run into similar problems with identifying "easy" pictures like "Grandmother" and "Grandfather". If your grandmother is "Mee-Mee" and your grandfather is "Pop-pop" or some other chosen name, if you answer incorrectly, is it because you don't understand the concept or have never actually used that word to refer to that concept?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4675590510792979183.post-53952429747548271922015-11-02T08:11:51.211-05:002015-11-02T08:11:51.211-05:00My daughter is an adult now, but was very much lik...My daughter is an adult now, but was very much like Maya as far as testing is concerned,but with much worse fine motor skills. She had very good early experiences with a Psychologist over many visits from age almost 2 years to almost 6 when we moved out of state. That was primarily BECAUSE he was willing to presume competence and start with testing items for her age instead of following the test directions and start way below her age.<br />He also noticed that she almost always looked at the correct answer first and stared at it for a while, but then would refuse to answer or chose the incorrect answer. Because he knew her, he recorded BOTH her first answer and what she ultimately answered. The first answer put her as age appropriate as far as that test. He said her second answers were not even possible to get that many wrong by chance. His conclusion was that she was answering incorrectly on purpose. <br />When we moved, his written assessment included things like "she is a one trial learner. If you ask and she responds correctly, assume she knows and move on as you would for any non- disabled child....if doing testing, start AT or SLIGHTLY below her age level. If you start too low, you will lose her before seeing her true level."<br />Unfortunately, after we moved, they did none of those things. We refused Psych testing until we could not any more without losing services. Even though she was about 9, that school Psychologist said he "could not rely on" our previous Psychologist's testing because it was "done in a non-standard, unnormed method". He said he "could not" start at age appropriate test items because it would "not be valid". So, he began with age 9 month items, which she refused to answer. As a result, she tested at about 10 months on the test. <br />He also (I think, threw us a bone), by including a questionnaire of skills/abilities too. It included things like:<br />- Gross Motor skills: runs well, accurately throws a ball, catches a ball<br />- Fine motor skills: uses a scissor to cut accurately on a line, writes, colors in the lines, cuts food<br />- Self help: can prepare a simple meal, uses toilet independently, independent with hygiene (wash face, brush teeth)<br />- Safety: can safely play outside independently, can state name/address and phone number<br /><br />Of course, as a no-verbal child with cerebral palsy who can't walk or stand and who has very poor fine motor skills, she could not do those things eitherAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4675590510792979183.post-82453641977697756332014-12-05T01:06:10.031-05:002014-12-05T01:06:10.031-05:00What a wonderful post! I hit rock bottom when DS w...What a wonderful post! I hit rock bottom when DS was 2. I took him to a new ped. to get a rash checked. Ped took 1 look at DS, said "I've seen kids like him, they rarely better". DS at the time was non verbal. I completely lost hope because here was a "professional" telling me this.<br /><br />2 yrs later DS was seeing a child psychologist to see if he was getting the autism dx or not. The dr. was pointing out DS's deficiencies, meanwhile at 4 yrs old DS was READING the words in a book (& pronouncing them correctly)-aardvark, koala, flamingo, etc. As the dr was droning on I thought You.Are.An.Ass. Stop telling me what is "wrong" with my child, he's obviously bright & you are testing him verbally & giving him open ended questions which he cannot answer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4675590510792979183.post-12029734367179706622014-11-27T00:04:36.656-05:002014-11-27T00:04:36.656-05:00Thank you!! This would explain why my son always t...Thank you!! This would explain why my son always tests much higher in expressive language than receptive (how is that even possible?? He can speak it but he can't understand what he himself is speaking?)<br />Your examples are perfect.Katiehttp://forelysium.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4675590510792979183.post-60131842889937947852014-11-25T03:06:59.116-05:002014-11-25T03:06:59.116-05:00Oh my gosh, thank you for posting this, this is ex...Oh my gosh, thank you for posting this, this is exactly why every evaluation has been so frustrating and disheartening for me! You summed it up correctly, right on the mark. Thank you for sharing this!!anna vnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4675590510792979183.post-57560708325923483072014-11-18T16:07:14.097-05:002014-11-18T16:07:14.097-05:00I am currently studying to be a Speech Language Pa...I am currently studying to be a Speech Language Pathologist, and I think it was really important for me to read your post. Throughout my practicums, I have actually found that assessments seem to be used too much, when they aren't necessary, appropriate or at all worthwhile. This has given me a lot to think about. Thank you!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4675590510792979183.post-14861493389254485332014-11-06T10:13:14.968-05:002014-11-06T10:13:14.968-05:00So true.
As the parent of teens with disabilities,...So true.<br />As the parent of teens with disabilities, I can tell you that this system can wreak havoc on self-esteem. To be presumed to be not competent or unfocused, or to not be believed is tough to hear from "professionals" over and over again throughout childhood.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4675590510792979183.post-35548944801114505272014-11-04T17:11:16.134-05:002014-11-04T17:11:16.134-05:00LOVE! I have two children who have had speech the...LOVE! I have two children who have had speech therapy through early intervention, so I've seen some of the assessment tools and YES! I can see how the issues would be magnified with a child with more significant language or cognition issues, but they exist even with kids who barely qualify for services. I like your original assessment of the assessment tests - simply a way to prove you need all the services available to be offered. and then as a parent, you tell the provider(s) what your child actually can and cannot currently do so they can set their expectations in line with reality.LChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16628546442999250169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4675590510792979183.post-2757928035090802742014-11-04T12:36:18.374-05:002014-11-04T12:36:18.374-05:00Oh, now that I said my kids aren't special nee...Oh, now that I said my kids aren't special needs, some of them do/did have minor speech issues. (A lateral lisp on several sounds and a vowel shift.) I noticed this short of thing when I had my kids tested for that -- I had to sometimes interpret, because my child had answered the question right but the tester thought she had said "guy" instead of "girl." Or they used pictures my child was unfamiliar with and thus couldn't label. It was important that he know it was her pronunciation that was off, not her cognition, so we got the proper services.miriamphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14339767447913960853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4675590510792979183.post-74293099478065996952014-11-04T12:31:02.659-05:002014-11-04T12:31:02.659-05:00Why don't people pay more attention? My first ...Why don't people pay more attention? My first instinct with your therapist story would have been to ask about a fire drill! And I'm not the parent of a special needs kid or in the field. (My father is totally blind, so I did grow up with more of a sensitivity to "differently abled," but to at least ask if there had been a fire or a drill still seems like common sense to me!)miriamphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14339767447913960853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4675590510792979183.post-55267868258091631942014-11-04T08:52:01.652-05:002014-11-04T08:52:01.652-05:00Thank you Thank you! As a mom I know all this. Tha...Thank you Thank you! As a mom I know all this. Thanks for putting it down on paper in such a well thought out, researched intelligent way.Another thing my son has been tested with is completely outdated material. "pint to the Clerk." Picture of a store and the cashier. I said to the tester who even heard of a clerk anymore? or mainstream media when your kid does not watch Disney, etc. etc. Or we live on a farm and there is tons of "city" stuff... buses and trains, etc. which he had barely ever seen. I say follow the money. The tests are money makers and why should the companies update them... that costs money. I have been so fristrated by the tests I refuse as many as I can(O here I am being the difficult parent). Thanks again.<br /><br />Liz TreeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4675590510792979183.post-90049988387080200362014-11-03T14:56:02.649-05:002014-11-03T14:56:02.649-05:00WOW, it is as if you have lived in side my head! I...WOW, it is as if you have lived in side my head! I have said much of this from day one, thank you for posting and reminding us all what is really important.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4675590510792979183.post-64069407128274146632014-11-02T19:03:13.752-05:002014-11-02T19:03:13.752-05:00This is such a great post! I am a Speech Language ...This is such a great post! I am a Speech Language Pathologist and have to give standardized tests in order to "prove" to the state or insurance that my clients have low enough language skills to receive my services. Many times, I know the test is not able to show what the client CAN do. I try to get this across in meetings with parents, but it's hard when you have to have numbers for the entity that will pay the bill. It's easy to get complacent about presenting these numbers and using them to develop therapy instead of using the information you gain from parents' knowledge and from working with the client. Thanks for the reminder. These tests are a means to an end (for the insurance company or the state) and should not be used to "get to know" the client.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4675590510792979183.post-8780283601455467422014-11-02T08:49:41.240-05:002014-11-02T08:49:41.240-05:00My thoughts exactly. Thank you!
My thoughts exactly. Thank you!<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4675590510792979183.post-14909467027883941752014-11-01T20:03:49.128-04:002014-11-01T20:03:49.128-04:00Kerith, I'm definitely a fan of sign for older...Kerith, I'm definitely a fan of sign for older children/adults who were raised using sign (and before the tech wave). And to clarify for possible new readers who are wondering why I don't like sign---I actually do, but only when it's used as one communication tool in a large toolkit. This post speaks more about that: http://niederfamily.blogspot.com/2014/05/the-limitations-of-sign-language-for.html<br /><br />Unfortunately, MsSpeducate, I find that in house assessment are often equally unreliable. As you mention, rapport is SO huge---and if educators are starting with low expectations and not presuming competence they may not correctly interpret our kids . . . or, our kids may decide not to try for them. I've found taking video at home (of independent AAC use and of us engaged in literacy activities) to be invaluable. I share the videos with the team, and they have to believe.Danahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11193445038085911249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4675590510792979183.post-40043702047421121512014-11-01T15:05:09.071-04:002014-11-01T15:05:09.071-04:00This is an essential read for all that work with c...This is an essential read for all that work with children with special needs. I have to say I feel that this is where the special educator is so important. Someone who works with your child on a daily basis is much better at assessing your child's abilities, not disabilities. The assessments we use like Brigance and SANDI are based on observations and direct assessment. Assessments in this manner are invaluable in helping set good educational goals for a child. I see how important rapport is to any assessment, its sad so much value is placed on outside evaluations for funding purposes. It drives me crazy that the school psychologist is in charge of triennial IEP meetings, when they have no relationship with the child and wind up presenting evaluations with "untestable" or low scores. I'm glad you've learned to not fixate on them and hope others will learn from you.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06422830538841919059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4675590510792979183.post-22960046414904310002014-11-01T11:32:19.451-04:002014-11-01T11:32:19.451-04:00I truly HATE tests for my 18yo nonverbal child. Sh...I truly HATE tests for my 18yo nonverbal child. She uses an augmentative communication device at school but uses fairly fluent sign language at home -- yes, I know you're not a fan of sign but it truly works for her at home much more efficiently than her device. On top of her communication issues, she has fine motor issues, particularly on the right side. She has very little experience/success with manipulating puzzle pieces. Testers put together pieces from one test and another and another to get her IQ score. Her last number was 36. How can that be?? She functions at least at a fourth grade level academically. Talk about false negatives. Drives me crazy.Kerith Stullhttp://brielleandme.net/meeting-finally-behind-us/noreply@blogger.com